Interview conducted by Bernard Andreas Schütze on November 14, 1999 at the Usine C, where Granular Synthesis
presented their recent production POL II as part of the Elektra event.
Bernard Andreas Schütze: The first work of yours I saw was
Model 5 at ISEA 95, here in
Montreal. I remember being literally propelled out of my seat by the onslaught of the
hyper-flickered images and sounds. In comparison, POL II is a far more pared down, more
complex work, that expands on your use of loops, samples and other digital technologies
resulting in a novel aesthetic where image and sound are fused in the momentum of their
projection. Even more so than Model 5, POL II appears to move us away from
representation into a realm of presentation, a sort of immediacy made possible by what is in
fact a highly mediated process. How do you see the evolution from Model 5 to POL II in light
of this relation between representation and presentation/immediacy?
Ulf Langheinrich: It has a lot to do with representation. What made
Model 5 work so well was
the image of the face. The face is such a primary image, it is such an obvious emotion
trigger. What we have been doing since is to work on different models... models that move
us away from Model 5. We are trying to incorporate time in a different way, and this is quite
difficult since people have come to expect this kind of strong sensation. Over the last couple
of years we have been busy working with elements which don't have this kind of immediate
emotional impact from the start, that don't create this direct link to the subconscious, and that
are somewhat more difficult, less direct and less obvious.
Kurt Hentschläger: Referring to the question of representation and presentation. I think it is
both representation and presentation at once. This has much to do with the concept of the
loop (the loop is still our primary working material, though not exclusively) a loop represents
something, a sample, material, whatever, but at the same time, because of the repetitive
nature of loops, you have a moment where you set up a new time structure, a new time
feeling. So you leave the linear, and then you are into presentation, into presence, and this is
very exciting. You deal with those two issues at the same time and then you can balance
them, you use them as a tool. In
Model 5 it was the sense of presence that was one of the
main forces that grabbed the audience. There must be some sense of a human presence
represented, while at the same time you have the feeling of this artificial, synthesised
projected image. But what's funny is that the idea of a living and vivid presence subsists,
albeit in this weirdly new re-synthesised way. That's the key.
B.A.S.: I saw the premier of POL, then entitled POL Model 7, during ISEA 98 in Liverpool. In
this earlier version there seemed to be far more elements, it was busier and dizzier, whereas
the current version is more stripped down. What was the evolution from the initial POL
version and the one that the Montreal audience is being shown here?
U.L.: In the beginning we wanted to create a media-wall and at the same time a peak
feeling. Of course Liverpool was the early stage, it was more about piled up energy, very
straightforward. Where we are now, I would say comes out of Kurt's work on desperation, the
desperation of being and the difficulty to maintain a minimal reference to a human presence.
The problem is how to maintain just enough narrative structure to provide this reference
point. This anchorage point for the audience. In our current work we realised that we were
moving further and further away from any form of storytelling, even short or minimal
storytelling. What remains is a bare-boned skeletal narrative form, barely a story at all, just
splintered fragments repeating themselves. This is very difficult, and again all this was far
easier with Model 5 which had a more story-like unfolding, And yet in POL we feel that, even
though we are trying to say as little as possible in terms of a narrative structure, there is
something being said. Sometimes we ourselves are not even sure what is being said in the
work, but in our minds it is clear that there is something very distinct being expressed.
Actually the term desperation was not originally ours, somebody told us that this work was
about desperation, and we felt that this was true, much more so than in Model 5 which was
more about security and comfort.
K.H.: It's also has to do with the disappearance of the human, or rather being, not even the
human being, but just being. Model 5 was about the cyborg this man-machine thing; this
animated remote controlled being. In POL we are much more interested in the idea of an
ocean. I don't want to say an ocean of data, because it sounds awful, but anyway an ocean
were being is drowning, is kind of disappearing, a reference perhaps, but in the background,
it is about to be lost, it is about to say goodbye.
B.A.S: After the show in Liverpool. I approached a colleague of mine, a Rumanian journalist,
and she had had very little exposure to technological art, so I was curious about how she felt
about the work. Upon asking her she responded: "This is not ART it is WAR!"
K.H.: (laughs) That is going to be my next favourite sample!
B.A.S.: Anyway, that statement kind of got me thinking about the relationship between the
power of technology and politics. For instance in Germany some artists and critics have
denounced aspects of the German techno scene as having potentially fascistic ramifications
that are reminiscent of the rallies of the 30s. Though I believe that is quite an overstatement,
it does make one re-examine technological power from a more sombre and sober
perspective. I feel that your work in a sense sounds an alarm bell by exposing and making
people think about this. After all you said POL is about desperation. Do you believe that the
work obliquely touches on this relation between technology, power and politics?
K.H.: I think, (long pause) we are of course obsessed with the power of technology. By the very
nature of what we do. We have worked in this area for over fifteen years now, so we feel like
veterans. You go through all these phases. First you fall in love with technology, you can't
eat or sleep, then you get disgusted, and then you start all over again. You develop a
somewhat healthier attitude to it and then you get even deeper into it doing your own
programming and things like that. But overall it makes you so much more powerful; you
always deal with this issue of your own fantasy, your fantasy of superpower, of total power... I
think this is very political, and this is what drives our entire society to expand. But now this
expansion is more of an explosion because millions of people have embarked on a sort of
subconscious conspiracy; they are putting all their energy and work into this field to create
what...a parallel planet? Perhaps, and a parallel planet is just like a real planet, it has
wonderful and awful sides, but it's just life again, you can be negative or positive about it, but
in the end nothing really changes. That's the funny thing, it's just translated into another
field.
B.A.S.: For a change, let me ask a simple question. What does the title POL refer to?
U.L.: POL is from peak. It's the German word for pole as in North or South Pole. An
extreme point, a peak situation culminating in just one pole.
B.A.S.: OK. The next question is far removed from poles, North or South since it is about
Vienna. You both live and work in Vienna and are associated with the blossoming of
technological art that has come out of Vienna in the 90s. How do you relate this to the
Viennese past? Having produced the likes of Mesmer, Freud, Schnitzler, Viennese
Symbolism, Thomas Bernhard, Viennese Activism etc., one wonders what makes this city so
propitious to psychological deep-sea diving? This is also a tradition you seem to be following
in a hi-tech way with your recent works such as Noisegate, and of course POL II.
K.H.: There is an easy answer to that. There is just so much sinister energy in Vienna
(laughs). Just by living there you are confronted very often, with not very nice, not very
positive forms of energy. But nonetheless, they are interesting and exciting forms of energy.
Maybe, it also has to do with the mix of people you find in Vienna. Vienna was a melting pot of
many people for quite awhile, but this came to a complete and utter halt when the monarchy
collapsed. It was like everything was cut off. And what remained was a tiny German speaking
enclave. A completely amputated country. So the capital found itself at the centre of this tiny
little thing called Austria. To this very day people are suffering from this, they have not yet
overcome this...
B.A.S: Amputated phantom empire member syndrome?
K.H.: (laughs)...Yeah, It's like people were amputated in their brains. Today in Vienna their is
an air of paranoia, people are obsessed with aliens, foreigners, they want to pretend that they
are living on an island, they want to insulate themselves, to block the borders...
B.A.S.: So, some vote for the likes of Haider
U.L.: Right, that's very typical.
